Blumenthal, McMahon The "Talk of the Nation" On NPR

Below is a transcript of my conversation on Wednesday, May 26 with Ken Rudin and Neal Conan on NPR's Talk of the Nation.  We talked about the Senate race in Connecticut from several angles, including a new Republican online ad comparing Blumenthal to other Democrats who've been caught in various scandals over the years.  

One day later, a new Quinnipiac University poll shows the Vietnam mistake hasn't cost Blumenthal much among voters - he still holds a 56-31 lead over GOP rival Linda McMahon.

CONAN: This is TALK OF THE NATION. Im Neal Conan in Washington.

NPR political editor Ken Rudin is with us, as he is every Wednesday on the Political Junkie segment. You can read his blog, download his podcast and solve his ScuttleButton puzzle at NPR.org.

Earlier this year, long-serving Senator Christopher Dodd bowed to political reality in Connecticut and decided to retire. For months it looked like the Nutmeg State's long-serving attorney general, Richard Blumenthal, was the odds-on favorite to succeed Dodd and keep the Senate seat in Democratic hands, until the New York Times dropped a political bombshell in a front-page story that quoted Blumenthal, claiming that he'd served in Vietnam, when he'd actually been a member of the Marine Corps Reserve and served all of his time in uniform stateside.

Last week, Blumenthal expressed his regret over the conflicting statements, but after criticism that the word regret was not strong enough, he said he was sorry for his mistake.

Mr. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (Democratic Senatorial Candidate, Connecticut): From the very outset I expressed regret and took responsibility for words that should have been more precise and clear about my service in the United States Marine Corps Reserve.

CONAN: Also last week, during an interview with Sean Hannity on Fox News, Republican senatorial hopeful Linda McMahon acknowledged that she provided the Times with information for that story.

(Soundbite of TV show, "The Sean Hannity Show")

Mr. SEAN HANNITY: And you had no role whatsoever in the New York Times breaking the story?

Ms. LINDA McMAHON (Republican Senatorial Candidate, Connecticut): No, our research, they, you know, they had initiated this story. We contributed some research, you know, to the story for the New York Times, but they initiated. They did the research. They did all the verification for it.

CONAN: Over the weekend, Connecticut Democrats overwhelmingly endorsed Blumenthal. Republicans set up what looked like a runoff between McMahon and a former congressman, but he's since bowed out. So Blumenthal/McMahon now. If you're a voter in Connecticut, what do you make of all of this? Has it affected how you might vote? 800-989-8255. Email us, talk@npr.org. You can join the conversation on our website. Thats at npr.org. Click on TALK OF THE NATION.

Joining us now from member station in Hartford is John Dankosky, news director at WNPR, also host of their local talk show, WHERE WE LIVE. And Dan, nice to have you with us.

RUDIN: John, John.

JOHN DANKOSKY: Thank you very much, Neal.

CONAN: You did that...

DANKOSKY: That's okay.

CONAN: You did that to me, Ken. He set me up for that.

(Soundbite of laughter)

DANKOSKY: Hi, Ken.

CONAN: How is this story playing out there in Connecticut?

DANKOSKY: Well, it's interesting. It's almost like it's two different stories. The story here in Connecticut is clearly some people are upset with Richard Blumenthal. They're glad that he made an apology, and some people wish he'd made an apology a little bit sooner.

But it's almost a different story when you read the national papers. It seems as though nationally this is a story that's going to crush Dick Blumenthal and that Linda McMahon is going to roll right over him, and this is the end of his career. And around here, we've known Dick Blumenthal for a very long time.

I will say that my colleague here, Colin McEnroe, who hosts another talk show that comes on just before TALK OF THE NATION, he surveyed a bunch of reporters who have covered Blumenthal for years and year and years, and to a person none of them said that Dick Blumenthal had made Vietnam service a part of his stump speech.

No one really thought that he was trying to claim that he spent time in Vietnam, that it was indeed, to many of these reporters' ears, a misstatement.

So Neal and Ken, it's almost as thought the national media is making more of a deal of this than the Connecticut media is, and the people in Connecticut, while we hear some outrage, for the most part it's just a different story, it seems.

CONAN: Well, he was surrounded by veterans when he first responded to this story and did not go far enough, did not actually apologize in that first statement.

But in any case, the Times then ran an interview with Chris Shays, the Republican congressman from Connecticut, an old friend of Dick Blumenthal's, who said wait a minute, I'd heard this creeping into his story from time to time. I now regret not calling him out on this personally and maybe putting a stop to it.

DANKOSKY: Yeah, I'll also say that some people who know both men have suggested to me that, you know how sometimes politicians call themselves friends when they're not really friends, and this happens all the time, including on the floor of the Senate, and how close of friends those two guys were beforehand, I'm not really sure. I'm not sure that Dick Blumenthal had Chris Shays over a lot to dinner, and I'm sure he's not going to have him over much anymore now.

CONAN: I don't think he can expect a Thanksgiving invitation. Ken?

RUDIN: John, but the point is not whether that Chris Shays and Dick Blumenthal were good friends or not. The point is Chris Shays has never been known as a Republican partisan, somebody who plays these kind of games, and he said he's heard it over and over again.

And so when Dick Blumenthal says that how dare you impugn my record on veterans, that's not what anybody's impugning. They're impugning they're questioning his honesty when he's said this over and over again, and he didn't correct the record, even when people wrote about his service in Vietnam, until this week.

DANKOSKY: I think that the honesty, honestly Ken, is in question. The fact is that he hasn't strongly enough come out and made clear what it was he was trying to say. He has obviously misstated things, as he would put it, over the course of years. Many people have probably heard him say stuff like this.

But as I say, almost all the people in the press corps, the people who I deal with, I've covered Dick Blumenthal for 16 years, I never believed once that he was trying to sell me a story that he was walking through rice paddies in Vietnam at that time.

As you go back and you watch these videos, it does seem pretty clear that a guy who is most of the time pretty careful with his words was being very careless with his words, or he was carefully trying to make a point that he had service that he didn't.

That being said, most of the people who spend a lot of time around him that I know in the press haven't really heard a drumbeat over time that Dick Blumenthal is trying to sell a Vietnam tale.

CONAN: And they will hear a drumbeat, however. There's already an ad that's been produced by the Republican Senate Campaign Committee, just out, that has well, you're going to hear it. It's a TV ad, but there's a montage of disgraced Democrats they could have picked any number of Republicans too. They happened, being the Republican committee, to pick disgraced Democrats from Eliot Spitzer to Rod Blagojevich here at the top of the ad. It's called "Just Another Lying Politician."

(Soundbite of advertisement)

Mr. ELIOT SPITZER (Former New York Governor, Democrat): I have begun to atone for my private failings. I am deeply sorry that I did not live up to what was expected of me.

Mr. ROD BLAGOJEVICH (Former Illinois Governor, Democrat): I have never abused my office.

Unidentified Man #1: I expect you to expel me.

Unidentified Man #2: I am absolutely innocent.

Unidentified Man #3: I am asking her to grant me a leave of absence.

Unidentified Man #4: To ask for assistance raising money for his brother, then-Governor Blagojevich.

Unidentified Man #5: I have done nothing wrong.

Mr. BLUMENTHAL: We have learned something very important since the days that I served in Vietnam.

I have misspoken about my service. A few misplaced words, in instead of during.

Mr. CHRIS MATTHEWS (MSNBC): He lied, a direct hundred-percent lie. I would never have anything to do with anybody if it helps this guy become a senator because he may be have a real problem with character and the truth.

CONAN: And that last voice, Chris Matthews, not identified. But John, after this ad is played a few times, and Linda McMahon, no shortage of money in her campaign she has $50 million of her own money she's ready to spend. She may run that ad or similar ones. That is going to be a drumbeat.

DANKOSKY: Well, absolutely, and the fact is that since the start of the Linda McMahon campaign, the number that we've all been kicking around here is $50 million. She dropped that number early on and said I'm willing to spend 50 million of my own dollars on ads just like this one.

And the fact is that when Dick Blumenthal or anybody else gives her the opportunity to run an ad over and over and over again with his own words, she'll be able to spend the money and do it.

I'll say, you know, we have a Vietnam veteran who just got out of the race, Rob Simmons, who was running for the Republican nomination against her. He lost in the convention, and he decided he couldn't go forward, in part because he said she's already spent $16 million against me just before we get to a primary. I can't keep up.

Dick Blumenthal, while he has some pretty deep pockets himself and while he has a lot of ability to raise money around the country, I don't know if he can keep up with that.

CONAN: Let's get some callers in on the conversation. Let's go to Chris(ph), and Chris calling us from West Hartford.

CHRIS (Caller): Hi. I think that as John kind of talks about, Dick Blumenthal, with 25 years of public service, 20 years as attorney general, taking down genuine bad guys, you know, corrupt bankers, health insurers who, you know, weren't giving coverage to people in accordance to contracts, and a whole host of other malfeasors(ph), has a strong reputation as a do-gooder who goes forward without fear or favor and who is anything but corrupt.

I think that, yes, he's human, yes he made some misstatements. I think that Maureen Dowd probably has the right take on his misstatements, that he gets in front of a group of veterans who did serve in, you know, in Vietnam and put their lives on the line, unlike him - as he said, he was behind a desk during that time - and he kind of wishes he were like them in that respect, to have been over there.

But, you know, that makes him human. That does not make him a liar or a corrupt human being...

CONAN: Do you think it's going to hurt him in the campaign, Chris?

CHRIS: I think it'll hurt him with a few voters. I think that the Rasmussen poll is overstated. Scott Rasmussen is a Republican partisan, and he you know, if you look at fivethirtyeight.com, pollster.com and others who critique polls, his model clearly is weighted heavily towards Republicans, and he...

CONAN: John Dankosky, can you help us out here?

DANKOSKY: Well, and maybe I can fill you in. I mean, the Rasmussen poll almost was an instant poll that came out right after this story broke, and it basically had drawn the two almost in a dead heat. Linda McMahon, who'd been trailing Dick Blumenthal since the very start.

Now, we're waiting for a poll, all of here in Connecticut who watch these things - the Quinnipiac poll, which is really the poll of record here in Connecticut, is expected to drop tomorrow. And the latest results in both the Senate race and the governor's race here in Connecticut, we'll find out an awful lot more about what the people of Connecticut are thinking about this tomorrow.

CONAN: Okay, Chris, thanks for the call. Go ahead, Ken.

RUDIN: And just one thing about what Chris said. Yes, Blumenthal does have an exemplary record. He's done good things. And Eliot Spitzer fought, you know, corruption in - on Wall Street as well. But he also had his own peccadilloes that voters had to weigh when making a decision.

CONAN: Let's see if we can - go ahead, John.

DANKOSKY: I just want to say quickly, too - and in case you guys haven't seen this - the one thing that really you know you've arrived with a real faux pas whenever Joe Biden is making fun of you. Have you seen this today in The Hill? Joe Biden actually took an unexpected dig at Blumenthal today for misstating his military service record. He said, and I didn't serve in Vietnam. I don't want to make a Blumenthal mistake here.

CONAN: Oh.

DANKOSKY: He said, according to a poll report, our attorney general from Connecticut, God love him, and later on he said, of course, as you both know, I have a bad habit of saying exactly what I think. So whenever you're a punch line in a Joe Biden speech, you know that it has indeed got some legs.

CONAN: Let's go next to Andy(ph), Andy with us from New London.

ANDY (Caller): Yes, sir.

CONAN: Go ahead, please.

ANDY: I was in the military at the same time and I did not serve in Vietnam. But politicians - he's a politician. I don't think he's going by what people from the military conservative to be doing an honorable thing. It is dishonorable to take credit for something you didn't do. And too many people from our generation fought and died and came back crippled from that war, for someone to use it for his own political gain, I'm not going to vote for him.

CONAN: Would you have...

ANDY: I'm going to - I'm sorry. I would have before but not now.

CONAN: All right. Andy, thanks very much. Well, before we finish here, there is another candidate in this race, that's Linda McMahon who would have been expected to be the focus of much attention, a colorful person who's got no previous political experience. And, of course, is married to Vince McMahon, the WWE grandee. And she, of course, served as CEO of that corporation and said, well, now we've got a smack down in Connecticut.

DANKOSKY: Well, she likes using the smack down terminology almost as much as Arnold Schwarzenegger likes using this sort of girly man terminology. She loves to talk about wrestling terms, and this is right in her wheelhouse, right? She's able to make a show of something like this. I will say that what this has done for a lot of people in Connecticut is it's taken the eye off a slightly different ball.

The McMahon campaign has been dogged with criticism about the WWE and its steroid policy, a number of wrestlers who've died on WWE watch over the years while she was CEO. And there are certainly people looking into that, but nothing that has happened during the campaign that has looked at the McMahon campaign has certainly even come close to the amount of scrutiny that's happened in this Blumenthal thing over the last week.

CONAN: And John Dankosky, do you think that the Blumenthal campaign would be served to put out an ad of their own that directly addresses this? There's a quote from that same speech earlier where he said, I served during the Vietnam War.

DANKOSKY: Well - and that's a very good point. That came up the next day. It's honestly softened the blow a little bit because The New York Times piece, when it was released, it only had a snippet of this and you only heard him serving in Vietnam. You didn't hear the beginning of the speech where he clearly said that he didn't serve in Vietnam. That came out a day after this Times story and that's kind of what I mean when I say that it's played out differently here in Connecticut. A lot of people in Connecticut saw that and it did soften the blow for him. Whether or not he uses that in a speech, or whether or not he just keeps to his guns and says, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. It remains to be seen.

I'll just say this. I've dealt with Dick Blumenthal for a long time. He's pretty good at staying on message. If he wants to just say, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, he'll say it 150,000 times because that's what he does. He stays on message especially after this.

CONAN: Ken?

RUDIN: But John, the key here is that this is not one speech we're talking about. It is one videotape we have and we keep talking about that to death. But as Chris Shays said, this is not a one-time only instance. It's happened over and over.

DANKOSKY: Yeah, absolutely. And I don't doubt that that's what Chris Shays said. And I haven't seen enough other evidence of that to be able to judge for myself. I know some people really believe that he said this willy-nilly. I know like the veteran we just heard from, a lot of people honestly are mad and I think it's going to draw this race closer, Ken. I have no doubt it's going to have a big impact. As of a couple of weeks ago, Dick Blumenthal had a pretty commanding lead over Linda McMahon. That's going to be a smaller lead. Whether or not that costs him the race, I don't know.

CONAN: John Dankosky who is with WNPR, our member station in Hartford. You're listening to TALK OF THE NATION from NPR News.

And one last call from Connecticut. This is Paul(ph), Paul with us from Stonington.

PAUL (Caller): Yes, good afternoon. Yeah. How are you?

CONAN: I'm well. Thanks.

PAUL: I live in Stonington, Connecticut, which is the hometown of Rob Simmons who almost received the public nomination in lieu of Linda McMahon. And your screener asked me who I would vote for and why, and the answer is Linda McMahon. And I think, personally, the results of the election more than likely will not be changed. I think Dick Blumenthal may squeak this out. But prior to this incident, I think Dick Blumenthal would have won by, perhaps, 10 percentage points. And I think now the election will be won within the margin of error.

CONAN: Paul, I think you maybe the Political Junkie of Stonington. I think that's a pretty astute analysis. Thanks very much for the phone call. And John Dankosky we'll await that Quinnipiac poll tomorrow. We appreciate your time today, too.

DANKOSKY: Oh, no problem at all. Thanks very much.

CONAN: John Dankosky, news director at WNPR. Our member station there at Connecticut Public Radio in Hartford.